The Hidden Root Of Campus Radicalism
An interview with Dr. Jonathan Schanzer on the ties between foreign money and campus demonstrations and how the radicalism we have witnessed on college campuses is neither spontaneous nor organic.
As the Senior Vice President for Research at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, Dr. Jonathan Schanzer focuses on national security, foreign influence, and some of the biggest issues shaping our world right now. Recently, he’s been digging into how foreign money is connected to campus protests—and what that means for students given the uptick in antisemitism. Here he shares what he believes is really going on behind the scenes, what students need to watch out for, and why understanding these issues matters more than ever.
OCUC: What was the career path that led to your work with Foundation For Defense of Democracies?
Dr. Jonathan Schanzer: I took quite a circuitous route to arrive at FDD. After graduating from Emory University in the mid-1990s, I thought I wanted to be a journalist or an advertising copywriter, but that quickly lost its luster for me. I made a big decision to move to Israel in 1998 for a MA in Middle Eastern studies. That was a life-changing experience for me. I couldn’t have asked for a better way to study the Middle East. After that, I studied Arabic for a few months in Cairo. Within days of returning from Cairo, the 9/11 attacks occurred. My life changed drastically. I moved from think tank to think tank. But it wasn’t until 2010 that I found a home here at FDD. I love the way our shop focuses on deep research and scholarship while also pushing for policy impact. This is the special sauce of FDD. And I am proud to be one of the engineers of this approach, along with my colleagues Cliff May and Mark Dubowitz.
OCUC: What drew you to focus your work on the financial aspect of terrorism?
Schanzer: I distinctly remember the FBI takedown of the Holy Land Foundation in Richardson, Texas in 2001. This was a Hamas charity that had sent more than $12 billion to Hamas over the course of a decade. And the images of FBI agents walking out of their offices with boxes full of documents and computers were inspiring to me. It was the first time I saw the financial levers of the “war of terror” being used. That was when I realized that my own research and scholarship could have a direct impact on America’s enemies in a non-kinetic way. In other words, to fight this war, I didn’t necessarily need to pick up a gun and fight. I could use my knowledge of the various Middle East-based terrorist groups that I had studied and put it to good use in the service of America’s national security. It was only a few years after the Holy Land takedown that I went to work at the Treasury.
OCUC: Can you provide more detail on your work with the US Department of Treasury, particularly the work following—and freezing—the funding of Hamas and Al Qaeda?
Schanzer: I joined the Treasury Department in 2004. I initially went to work for a shop called OFAC–the Office of Foreign Assets Control. This is a storied piece of the American bureaucracy that has been freezing the assets of our enemies for decades. But as the bureaucracy evolved after the 9/11 attacks, so did Treasury. I was there during the creation of a new vertical there called TFI–the Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence. I worked in the intelligence arm of TFI. And my job was to collect evidence that was to be used in the freezing of the assets of terrorists abroad. My major focus was Hamas and Al-Qaeda. And I was proud to be the driver of terrorism sanctions designations against several terror networks and operatives during the three years that I worked at Treasury. The bureaucracy continues to evolve over there. But they still do crucial work. And I am proud to have spent some time contributing to their mission.
OCUC: How has your work and focus changed since October 7th?
Schanzer: The 10/7 attack was quite a moment for me. For years, I had studied Hamas’s military and political structures, including its leaders and important locations of operations. For years, I had studied the group’s support networks, including the top patrons in Qatar, Turkey, and Iran. I had also studied the Hamas connections to campus networks. In other words, studying this group was my life’s work in many ways. I certainly have explored other security challenges in the Middle East and around the world. But this was a big chunk. So, you can imagine how the days, weeks and even months after October 7 were some of the busiest of my life. Just about every person I ever worked with on Hamas or related issues has been in touch. That led to lots of new projects and initiatives. In fact, things have not really slowed down. But some of that is entirely my fault. I started a podcast called the FDD Morning Brief, which broadcasts live every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday mornings. I became a contributing editor for Commentary Magazine, which I also enjoy. And my role at FDD has also changed. Right now, though, I must admit to a certain amount of war fatigue. I can only imagine what that must be like for the people of Israel, not to mention Gaza.
OCUC: What have you learned in your investigations into foreign money and campus demonstrations?
Schanzer: FDD began conducting research in the possible Hamas connections to the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement back in 2014. We found some disturbing connections between Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and charities that were ultimately shut down by American authorities for their Hamas connections. I shared that with Congress back in 2016. But little to nothing was done about my testimony back then. After the 10/7 attacks and the subsequent spike in anti-Semitism on campus, that research experienced a significant uptick in interest on the part of the U.S. government. I testified before Congress again in November. And that has prompted questions from federal and state government actors. I am gratified to see this interest in our work.
OCUC: What should students know about the tie between the two?
Schanzer: What students need to know is that the campus radicalism we have witnessed is neither spontaneous nor organic. We have evidence of full-grown men–professional and paid activists–appearing on campus and driving the behavior of the students. Once we understand that this is not necessarily driven by the students, we can begin to see the encampments and other campus outrages for what they are: an information and intimidation campaign designed to influence Americans on multiple levels. I am glad to see the Trump Administration take all this seriously. But I am also wary of overreach. We’ll have to wait and see how policy plays out.
OCUC: Your most recent book, Gaza Conflict 2021, felt prescient. How much of what you discussed still rings true and if not, what have you seen change and unfold in the conflict?
Schanzer: “Gaza Conflict 2021” was a sneak preview for everything we have seen since October 7. I wrote that book in just a few months and published it through FDD Press so we could get it out quickly. The book explores the media biases, the Hamas manipulation of the information space, the funders and supporters of Hamas, the history of the group’s wars with Israel, the tactics they have used, and more. So, the majority of the material still holds true to this day. What I didn’t see coming, and apparently neither did the Israelis, was that the group was capable of such horrific and widespread destruction. I simply didn’t foresee Hamas’s ability to carry out anything close to the scale of 10/7. Nor did I think the group would have been capable of launching a war against Israel that ultimately spready to seven fronts and has now lasted more than a year and a half. Some readers have suggested that I write the sequel to my book on the 10/7 war. Right now, however, I am more interested in looking into the military efforts that were designed to forestall such a conflict: what the Israelis call the “campaign between the wars.” My FDD colleague David Adesnik and I are currently wrestling with that book.
OCUC: Do you have reflections of your own time as a Jewish student on your college campus? Was your Jewish identity something that was a big part of your college experience?
Schanzer: I have never been big on religion. I seem to feel more spiritual when I am skiing or on a mountain bike or listening to live music. But what has always felt important to me is the very existence of a Jewish state. So, when I took a class on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict with Emory professor Kenneth Stein back in 1990, it changed my life. I understood back then that the study of Israel and its conflicts and its neighbors was going to be a lifelong pursuit. Ken still jokes with me (or maybe he’s not joking) that out of all the many students he taught, that I was the least likely in his mind to succeed in this field. That’s ok. I like to surprise people. In all seriousness, though, I worry that university professors teaching the conflict are incredibly biased and ideologically corrupt. It’s one of the reasons I have been tempted to teach at some point in my career. Of course, I have my own biases. But I like to think I would encourage and enable students to reach their own conclusions about this incredibly complex issue.
OCUC: Do you have any advice for students navigating this conflict and anti-Semitism on college campuses?
Schanzer: My advice has always been to learn both sides equally well. There are two narratives here: Palestinian and Israeli. You can’t really navigate this space without understanding both worldviews. For one, it’s the best way to take the anger and fear out of the equation. But there’s also this: if you want to be a better advocate for your side, you need to know how to fight back. And fighting back effectively doesn’t come from defending the narrative you might identify with. The winning approach entails accurately attacking the narrative of your adversary.
Please note: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy, position, thoughts, or opinions of Our CampUs United (“OCU”), its affiliates, or any other individuals or entities associated with OCU.